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楼主: 秋实

[讨论] 无菌手术要带口罩帽子吗?-大牛医生葛均波是怎样做手术的

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发表于 2016-8-2 16:56 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 胡杨 于 2016-8-2 16:57 编辑

手术戴不戴口罩?,在中国的法规中要求是一个标准,答案是肯定的:必须带!。
在国外对手术按风险不同,是区别对待的。对于小手术和导管类介入手术,感染的风险很低,且感染菌主要来源于手术器械材料和手术部位,空气和操作者的外源性感染菌来源风险不大,这是询证的结果。所以小手术和介入可以不戴口罩。从感染防控的角度,这个医生的操作行为没有错!不必大惊小怪。

另外,前些日子,论坛有关于人流手术戴不戴口罩的讨论,我已经给了解释和文献出处,参考:

进一步了解,请参考文献:Guidelines on the facilities required for minor surgical procedures and minimal access interventions  H. Humphreys et al. / Journal of Hospital Infection 80 (2012) 103-109
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发表于 2016-8-2 17:00 | 显示全部楼层
胡杨 发表于 2016-8-2 16:56
手术戴不戴口罩?,在中国的法规中要求是一个标准,答案是肯定的:必须带!。
在国外对手术按风险不同,是 ...

赞同老师的观点,因手术级别,或者医师个人状况,就是手术医师如果有脱发等等的什么情况,如果不戴,那感染风险就比较高了。....
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发表于 2016-8-2 17:18 | 显示全部楼层
目前我国规范要求无菌操作必须戴口罩帽子。有没有必要需要循证医学考证!
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发表于 2016-8-2 18:01 | 显示全部楼层
看图片中的其他操作辅助人员,都是有戴口罩帽子,至少说明他们规定是要戴的,只是院士违反医院规定了吧。
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发表于 2016-8-2 18:05 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 胡杨 于 2016-8-2 18:11 编辑
一颗颗迷茫的心 发表于 2016-8-2 17:00
赞同老师的观点,因手术级别,或者医师个人状况,就是手术医师如果有脱发等等的什么情况,如果不戴,那感 ...


你还是没有明白。
节选:Guidelines on the facilities required for minor surgical procedures and minimal access interventions  H. Humphreys et al. / Journal of Hospital Infection 80 (2012) 103-109

Professional practice
If the hands of the operator are not visibly dirty, alcohol hand rubs or equivalent may be used between cases. However, a conventional surgical scrub is indicated at the start of a list, i.e. before the first case or procedure. Sterile gloves and a plastic apron are the minimum personal protective equipment requirement for carrying out minor surgical procedures.
However, full precautions, including fresh sterile gowns for each case, are required for MAI, for minor surgical procedures if a sterile device is being implanted and when there is a risk of significant post-procedure infection, or if there are other factors predisposing to infection.
Masks are not usually required except when a sterile device is being implanted, or when there are other issues predisposing to infection. However, face protection (e.g. mask with eye protection) for operators and other staff who may be affected is required, if splashing is likely. Further details on pre-, peri- and post-operative interventions to minimize SSI can be accessed elsewhere.
All surgical procedures should involve a checklist. Those involving general anaesthesia should be modelled on the World Health Organization checklist for safe surgery (http://www.who.int/patientsafety ... list_finalJun08.pdf) to include aspects of mechanical theatre ventilation, e.g. checking that the ventilation is working, in facilities for MAI. Modifications to these may be made for MAI and minor surgical procedures as appropriate.

History of hospital operating theatres
Over the centuries, surgeons have moved from operating under primitive conditions to an environment which is venti- lated to specific high standards and considerably advanced from that of their  redecessors. The practice of surgery demands the training of surgical trainees in the use of masks, sterile clothing and the need to minimize movement into and within the operating theatre. 3 There is also emphasis on minimizing the duration of each procedure as it is accepted, based on evidence, that prolonged procedures carry increased risk for SSI. 4
Specialized ventilation systems in operating theatres Originally, powerful extract ventilation was provided
for operating theatres to remove steam from boiling  ater ‘sterilizers’, pulling in air from surrounding areas (i.e. the theatre was at negative pressure), but this led to infections caused by airborne bacteria being drawn in from adjacent wards. With the general provision of clean air under positive pressure, clean wound infection rates fell by a factor of 10. 5e7
The principle of modern conventional theatre ventilation is to remove airborne contamination generated in the theatre and to prevent the ingress of possibly contaminated air from the surrounding areas. This is achieved by actively supplying relatively clean air into the theatre faster than excess air can be passively removed.
The air escapes through pressure release dampers and any gap in the fabric of the theatre (e.g. around doors) and, in flowing outwards, it prevents any air from surrounding areas flowing inwards.
The main source of airborne contamination is the skin of those moving inside the theatre, i.e. the staff. 8 This is diluted by the air supplied to the theatre, with air then flowing out to less sensitive areas such as corridors, carrying the contamination away with it. 8 A classic study of operating theatre ventilation found that counts of airborne microbes increased with the degree of movement and numbers of personnel within the theatre. 9 It was shown later that airborne skin squames carrying micro-organisms in a ‘raft-like’ fashion are shed from the skin surface; during modest activity, humans can shed microbe-carrying skin scales yielding up to 10,000 colonyforming units (cfu) every minute. 10e12
The importance of ventilation in controlling airborne contamination was shown in an early study in England where thecomparative rates of infection inhospital ranged from2% to 7% and the cut-off between a low and high rate was an aircount of 5 cfu/ft 3 referred to in the so-called Lidwell Report,
the forerunner of Health Technical Memorandum 2025, ‘Ventilation in healthcare premises’. 13,14
In ‘clean’ surgery, surgical sites can be exposed to airborne bacteria, either directly into the wound or indirectly by microbes settling ontosurgical/operativeinstrumentswhich will then, on use, transfer this contamination to the surgical site. This latter route probably accounts for the majority of airborne
bacteria in a surgical site or wound. 15 The smaller the incision, such as during laparoscopy, the greater will be the proportion of bacteria that enter the wound via indirect airborne sources. Thus instrument contamination contributes proportionally more to surgical site contamination in this scenario.
The critical areas within the operating theatre suite are the operating theatre itself and the preparation room, where sterile instrument packs may be opened and exposed to the air before use. The soiled utility room is under negative pressure (i.e. inward airflow) so that it does not contribute to airborne contamination in theatre.
There is a need to define procedures in terms of the susceptibility of the surgical or operative site to contamination and to define the basic physical requirements of facilities in which many minor surgical procedures and MAI may be carried out. Aetiology of post-operative infections in minor procedures and MAI  In the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) guidelines on SSI, no distinction is made between minor surgical procedures, MAI and conventional surgical operations. 2
However, it is not always clear what is meant by minor surgical procedures or MAI and the individual perception of this may vary according to background and professional practice.
Laparoscopic procedures are associated with lower infection rates than those after open procedures but patients who undergo laparoscopic procedures may be pre-selected and have a lower risk of infection as more complicated cases are carried out as conventional surgical operations. 16,17
Surveillance data of orthopaedic procedures from the Health Protection Agency revealed that Staphylococcus aureus accountedfor39e44%ofthebacteriaresponsibleforSSIinthese procedures followed by Enterobacteriaceae in 14e19% of cases. 18 The bacteria recovered from specimens taken from
infected wounds following laparoscopic abdominal surgery,  or hand surgery or day surgery,largely reflect the endogenous flora of both patients and staff, and appear to be no different from those following conventional surgical operations. 19,21 For example, S. aureus was responsible for 44% of infections of the hand and Pseudomonas aeruginosa and other Gram-negative bacilli are more likely to be responsible for infections arising from laparoscopic gastrointestinal procedures. 19,20 Therefore there does not appear to be any difference in the causative microbes of post-operative infection whether carried out as a conventional surgical operation or as an MAI/minor surgical procedure.
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发表于 2016-8-2 18:14 | 显示全部楼层
胡杨 发表于 2016-8-2 18:05
你还是没有明白。
节选:Guidelines on the facilities required for minor surgical procedures and  ...

大概的意思是:

手术操作方面【专业实践】

1、第一台手术前外科手消毒,后面的手术,没有明显污染使用快速手消剂即可。
2、小手术最低的个人防护用品是无菌手套和一个塑料围裙。但如果有植入物等感染风险因素存在,微创手术需要使用手术衣。
3、除了有植入物或其他诱发感染因素,通常不需要戴口罩。(Masks are not usually required except when a sterile device is being implanted, or when there are other issues predisposing to infection.)但手术可能发生喷溅,护目镜口罩是必需的。
4、所有的微创手术和小手术都应该仿照手术安全核对表,做包括诸如“通风检查”等项目的质量控制检查表。


环境空气控制方面:  
    手术室大型经典研究发现,空气微生物的数量增加主要来源于员工的皮肤,人员数量和室内运动的程度对空气污染可高达10000CFU每一分钟。因此强调控制空气通风的重要性。

   “清洁”手术,外科手术部位伤口可能直接或间接暴露于空气细菌,或者暴露于手术器械,使用后污染手术部位。对传统手术空气中细菌污染手术伤口可能是主要途径。但小切口如在腹腔镜手术则相反,通过空气进入伤口的细菌来源很少。主要是手术器械污染导致。手术室关键区域是手术间和准备间,在那里灭菌器械使用前会打开。
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发表于 2016-8-2 20:30 | 显示全部楼层
难道这个问题还要讨论吗?最基本的要求吧!!
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发表于 2016-8-2 22:23 | 显示全部楼层
个人认为还是有必要戴的。
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发表于 2016-8-3 08:11 | 显示全部楼层
内科医生的无菌观念比较差
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发表于 2016-8-3 08:15 | 显示全部楼层
做手术必须带口罩帽子。
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发表于 2016-8-3 08:15 | 显示全部楼层
个人观点觉得应该按无菌技术操作规范执行,应该戴口罩帽子
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发表于 2016-8-3 08:51 | 显示全部楼层
个人觉得国内医务人员是弱势群体

国外的大气一点无所谓,就算小概率事件发生了只要是按程序做的一般问题不大

国内的话只要出了问题很可能就有生命危险

因此虽然从风险来说有些小操作不带口罩,帽子也没什么,但是如果中奖了后果就非常严重

还有其实戴下口罩帽子也没多多少麻烦,习惯就好了
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发表于 2016-8-3 08:54 | 显示全部楼层
无菌手术必须按照无菌操作技术进行!
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发表于 2016-8-3 10:08 | 显示全部楼层
胡杨 发表于 2016-8-2 18:14
大概的意思是:

手术操作方面【专业实践】

谢谢版主,这下了解了!看来要相信科学啊。
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 楼主| 发表于 2016-8-3 17:18 | 显示全部楼层
不太赞同胡杨版主的说法,国外循证的结果可以完全适用于国内吗?包括说小手术连台就不用重新外科洗手?完全跟医务人员手卫生规范相悖啊,还有植入物风险问题,介入手术一般都是有很长的导管进入人体血管内的,这个风险不高?
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发表于 2016-8-4 08:42 | 显示全部楼层
《医院手术部(室)管理规范(试行)》第四章 医院感染预防与控制
第二十七条  医务人员在实施手术过程中,必须遵守无菌技术原则,严格执行手卫生规范,实施标准预防。
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发表于 2016-8-4 08:45 | 显示全部楼层
《手术部医院感染预防与控制技术规范(征求意见稿)》
第二章  手术部的基本要求
第十条        医务人员在手术操作过程中应当遵循以下基本要求:
(一)在手术部的工作人员和实施手术的医务人员应当严格遵守无菌技术操作规程;
(二)进入手术室的人员应当严格按照规定更换手术室专用的工作衣、鞋帽、口罩;
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发表于 2016-8-4 15:11 | 显示全部楼层
糊里糊涂 发表于 2016-8-2 14:45
国外的剧可不是国内的剧,他们都是复原真实性的。

“国外的剧可不是国内的剧,他们都是复原真实性的”你参与了还是观摩了,你这样说又伤害了多少国人?讨厌这样的言论。
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发表于 2016-8-4 16:08 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 糊里糊涂 于 2016-8-4 16:10 编辑
回头鹿 发表于 2016-8-4 15:11
“国外的剧可不是国内的剧,他们都是复原真实性的”你参与了还是观摩了,你这样说又伤害了多少国人?讨厌 ...


这样也算伤害?普天下都知道啊!用得着参与和观摩吗?讨厌!?你这样说话就不讨厌吗?!
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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-30 10:07 | 显示全部楼层
胡杨 发表于 2016-8-2 18:14
大概的意思是:

手术操作方面【专业实践】

介入手术通常都有放植入物,比如支架,比如封堵器,为什么不要带呢?
按法规要带,按感染防控就可以不带?这是什么道理,一个医院,几个尺度,这样合适吗?
还有您说的接台手术间不要重新洗手,这也是跟医务人员手卫生规范要求不合的的
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